Quote from Noel Lugue on December 30, 2024, 2:41 pm

Quote from Joseph Henson on December 2, 2024, 9:35 pm

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

One reason is that community leaders are in a role that may potentially affect more people in community. Since leaders regularly talk to those they serve, whether in 1-to-1s or to the whole group or body, the effect of their words can spread to more people than a regular member can. Also, since members recognize their leaders as an authority or as a model of discipleship, undisciplined speech of leaders may influence or distort the view of members regarding how they may conduct their own speech as well.

Another reason may be that even if no one gets to hear a leader with improper speech (e.g. cursing when no one is around), the words will still become a reality as they hold power. The words become an opening for the enemy to wreak destruction to God's people, not just intellectually or emotionally, but in the spiritual realm as well. Then, the leader may be subject to that spiritual attack, as he makes decisions for the community.

2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

I think Watchman Nee states that deceptive speech or telling lies is the most grievous. He explains that this indicates that we are doing the work of the devil, who is the father of lies. Thus, this fundamentally reveals the lordship of Christ in our lives if we have a tendency to cooperate with the evil one. We may only be listening to what our "minds" tell us is the more convenient or less painful option of telling lies, but the Lord is inviting us to take on the narrow road of telling the truth even if we have to sacrifice something of ourselves. Thus, is Jesus, who is the Truth, actually our Lord? Another point is that in our work of proclaiming God's truth, this may be colored by deceptive speech or telling lies that it would be harder for the recipient to receive it and bear fruit. Our deception becomes a stumbling block for the Spirit's power to work.  Though I believe, in the end, the Truth will prevail, but the Lord may use someone else to do it and we miss out on the chance to become the Lord's vessel as well as we bring about our own destruction.  The good news is that Jesus is the Savior who can deliver us from these forces, habits, and weaknesses stronger than ourselves. He, the Truth, can set us free if we let Him.  

"One reason is that community leaders are in a role that may potentially affect more people in community." I fully agree with your  statement. As leaders , we have members. And our speech either positive or negative, encouraging or discouraging, contructive or destructive can impact , influence , turn of, etc  lives of people under our care.

Quote from Von Cassanova on January 1, 2025, 9:02 pm

It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue. But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

We are the role model of our members. They will get confuse about the teachings of Ligaya if they will see the mouth of their leaders are like Duterte's mouth. We have to be careful of all the words that we are going to say especially in front of our brothers and sisters in the community.

Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most
grievous? Do you agree with him?

Deceptive speech is the most grievous. God is for the truth and if we tell lies it will destroy our credibility as human being in the eyes of God and in the eyes of our community. 

In this era of social media where the black propaganda and lies are rampant. We should not be afraid to speak for the truth. Tayo ay isang Kristiyanong bansa pero laganap ang kasinungalingan dahil madami sa atin ang walang pakialam at takot magsalita para sa katotohanan. 

 

Quote from Sherwin Lao on January 2, 2025, 8:24 pm

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue. But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

• Having a disciplined tongue is expected of all Christians, moreso with its community leaders (pastoral / senior leaders). Why? Since more power and authority is given to them, therefore more responsibility and expectation is expected as well. The community b/s in general looks up to them as an example of how to properly follow God’s commandments and they are always put on the spotlight for people to emulate and find guidance from. Having said this, the more they need to exemplify God’s teachings accordingly and showcase the proper disposition on how to handle their speeches. They must walk the talk as whatever they do/say may influence and represent the community as a whole. In the corporate world, there is what we call as credit risk and reputational risk, whatever you do to represent a company can make or break the name of the entire institution. So the higher your level in the corporation, the bigger the impact you bring to the table.

2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous? Do you agree with him?

• the author says LIES / Deceptive Speech as the most grievous and I totally agree with him because LIES = SATAN. And there’s no worst scenario than to be associated with the prince of lies himself. If we fall into a trap of saying lies, then our glass can be shattered. And once it is shattered, it will be very difficult to create the original image. In other words, our credibility, integrity and reputation may be at risk. So we should always avoid telling lies at all cost. Before renewal, I always defend white lies as something moral, but we all know that Lies are lies , we should call spade a spade and not sugarcoat it.

Quote from Gani Custodio on January 2, 2025, 10:12 pm

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue. But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

The pastoral or senior leaders are in a position of authority.
Sabi nga po nila, where there is authority, usually reflects the organization or team he/she represents. Thus, PLs or SLs must be role models in handling speech in all aspects, in or out of the community.
Our exposure to community leaders in handling their speeches also rubs on us, and reading through this chapter of Watchman Nee helps us realize that we are still a work in progress

2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous? Do you agree with him?

An unbridled tongue, from what I read is the most grievous form of careless talk, for it releases a deadly stream of words, causing great havoc in other lives, as well as, it can affect our own.

It was emphasized that careless words can spread damage and once spoken, they cannot be recovered.
Palagay ko po, hindi na nag-iisip talaga at basta lang meron masabi, mano mang meron masaktan sa mga bawat salitang babanggitin.

 

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 1:51 pm

Quote from Alan Santos on November 29, 2024, 5:24 pm

• It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

As Senior leaders, members, more often than not, are aware of the responsibilities SLs are supposed to have and show. One of them is their control or discipline when in comes to the use of speech. This will have dire consequences for the SL if anything wrong happens. Not just embarrassment for the SL but also of more of a lack of trust and integrity. As SLs, we must always be constantly aware of our speech, we must think before we open our mouth for once it is spoken, this can’t be taken back anymore no matter what kind of apology is done.

• Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words

I am not totally sure but I think this would be “Retaining People’s Confidence”. As Watchman Nee said, “We must learn to safeguard every confidence placed in us by others. People who cannot bridle their tongues cannot be entrusted with the Lord’s work.” To betray the trust and confidence that is given to us is like saying I don’t really care. This is not personal knowledge that we can share to anyone.  In no circumstance must this be broken not unless the “interest of the work make it necessary”. Please correct me if I’m wrong, this may need to be explained to me in more detail.

Hi Alan,  

I agree with your answer to the first question.  Especially because there are going to be occasions when we speak "officially" to our members, and the power of our message will be diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypcorite" comes to mind.

But I just want to emphasize that it is important that a pastoral worker such as ourselves should be conscious of everything that we say, not just in the podium, nor in the small group discussion, but in our day to day speech because we stands as a witness at all times, whether to our constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second point, while what you indicate is true.  It's important that people are confident in their trust of us.  But what Watchman Nee is trying to point out more specifically is "DECEPTIVE SPEECH", where he says, "This trouble is of the gravest possible nature."  This covers the whole range: from actual lies and falsehood, to exaggerations, to giving the false impression, to disguising the truth.   Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments.  I hope that makes sense.

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 2:06 pm

Quote from Joseph Henson on December 2, 2024, 9:35 pm

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

One reason is that community leaders are in a role that may potentially affect more people in community. Since leaders regularly talk to those they serve, whether in 1-to-1s or to the whole group or body, the effect of their words can spread to more people than a regular member can. Also, since members recognize their leaders as an authority or as a model of discipleship, undisciplined speech of leaders may influence or distort the view of members regarding how they may conduct their own speech as well.

Another reason may be that even if no one gets to hear a leader with improper speech (e.g. cursing when no one is around), the words will still become a reality as they hold power. The words become an opening for the enemy to wreak destruction to God's people, not just intellectually or emotionally, but in the spiritual realm as well. Then, the leader may be subject to that spiritual attack, as he makes decisions for the community.

2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

I think Watchman Nee states that deceptive speech or telling lies is the most grievous. He explains that this indicates that we are doing the work of the devil, who is the father of lies. Thus, this fundamentally reveals the lordship of Christ in our lives if we have a tendency to cooperate with the evil one. We may only be listening to what our "minds" tell us is the more convenient or less painful option of telling lies, but the Lord is inviting us to take on the narrow road of telling the truth even if we have to sacrifice something of ourselves. Thus, is Jesus, who is the Truth, actually our Lord? Another point is that in our work of proclaiming God's truth, this may be colored by deceptive speech or telling lies that it would be harder for the recipient to receive it and bear fruit. Our deception becomes a stumbling block for the Spirit's power to work.  Though I believe, in the end, the Truth will prevail, but the Lord may use someone else to do it and we miss out on the chance to become the Lord's vessel as well as we bring about our own destruction.  The good news is that Jesus is the Savior who can deliver us from these forces, habits, and weaknesses stronger than ourselves. He, the Truth, can set us free if we let Him.  

Hello Joseph,

I like your mindset in your answer to the first question.  Yes, as leaders, we are held to a much higher standard than the rest; and we want to avoid causing harm to anyone among those whom we are entrusted to serve.   Especially because there are going to be occasions when we speak "officially" to our members, and the power of our message will be diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypcorite" comes to mind.

But you also got it on point when you imply that we ought to be careful even when no one gets to hear us speaking improperly.  I suppose you refer here to no one in community, right? 

But think about that for a moment, because we should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be  Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner.

As for the second reflection point, you're absolutely correct.  Deceptive speech is really super seriously wrong.  And, Joseph, this could range from outright lies/falsehood, to hiding or disguising the truth, or giving false impressions, or not fully disclosing everything.  Do to others as you would have them do to you, right?  People may have to make decisions based on what we tell them, believing that what we tell them is true.  And this is bound to have negative and unintended consequences that is bound to harm someone.  It therefore betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments.   

While we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood that I mentioned above ... exaggeration, disguised truth, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 2:32 pm

Quote from James Labayo on December 3, 2024, 10:30 am

It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

It is very important for us to be mindful of our thoughts and speech. When we talk, we expose our inner character. Just like the “eyes being the soul’s window”, speech allows us to express, share and show a lot of who we are.

As a pastoral and senior leader, it is a must to have a disciplined and restrained tongue because of our sphere of influence. We take care of various individuals, especially men, who also have their own respective spheres. Directly and indirectly, we are responsible for their spouses, children, mission work, friends and work environment. Our speech has a great effect on others and the “others” around them.

Personally, this article gave me a different mindset. When I talk to someone, I am not just talking to an individual but also to a multitude of people that he will encounter.

Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

I think it is the one wherein we engage in mindless, loose and light talk. It is a total disregard of who we are as a disciple of God. Such irresponsibility weakens our relationship with the Lord and allows the evil one to take over our speech. Unknowingly, instead of being used by the Lord, we are talking against Him in all levels of our conversations.

 

 

Hello James,

I like your mindset when you say that you need to be aware that you're talking to a multitude of people whenever you're speaking.  Perhaps you're also referring to a wide variety of people ... and all of them making decisions and forming opinions based on what they hear from you.

And I might add ... because you are in some position of authority in Ligaya, what you say will be taken more seriously by your audience; or, if what you say is improper, will give a bad impression not only of your character, but also the character of Ligaya itself.  Worse case, it could reveal how little impact Jesus has in your life. 

Allow me to add just one more thing on this point. 

But think about that for a moment, because we should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be  Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second reflection point, it's important that we understand what Watchman Nee considers as a grievous matter. 

My opinion is that mindless, loose and light talk is not the most serious fault to watch out for. 

What Watchman Nee is trying to point out more specifically is "DECEPTIVE SPEECH", where he says, "This trouble is of the gravest possible nature."  This covers the whole range: from actual lies and falsehood, to exaggerations, to giving the false impression, to disguising the truth.   Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments.  I hope that makes sense.

While we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood that I mentioned above ... exaggeration, disguised truth, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  We need to be very very watchful about this. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 3:07 pm

Quote from Dom Hormigos on December 7, 2024, 8:39 am

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

>>> It is more important for pastoral leaders to have a disciplined and restrained tongue because in many ways we represent who we belong to. That means being part of Ligaya we are expected to bring with us the culture that we are living out. As mentioned in the article, what has been said will no longer be erased but is passed on to several people. As leaders, we are also expected to have it because they are under our care. We cannot just lead them by our own knowledge but with God's guidance and wisdom. We can do through our daily time with the Lord. We may not immediately be good stewards of God's words but there's always a room to improve and to be more conscious in the way we speak.  

2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

>>> Telling lies is among the most grievous form of careless talk. This is because we know that what we're speaking of is not true. This will never be acceptable to God. It may not be easy but as God's stewards to our brothers and sisters, we are expected to be more aware of the our responsibility. 

Hello Dom. 

You’re correct, Dom, in pointing out that we represent Ligaya (to the outside world).  You also refer to our roles in pastoring people under us, with the wisdom that can only be acquired from the Holy Spirit.  This is why Watchman Nee emphasizes the importance of guarding our speech at all times.

Let me just emphasize that there are going to be occasions when we speak "officially" to our members, and the power of our message will be diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypcorite" comes to mind.  Right?  So, we need to be careful at all times when we’re around our brothers and sisters.

And, you’re right.  We should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second reflection point, you’re absolutely correct in pointing out what Watchman Nee highlights is of grievous concern, namely deceptive speech. 

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood ... exaggeration, disguised truth, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  We need to be very very watchful about this. 

Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 3:18 pm

Quote from Johnny Yu on December 7, 2024, 7:57 pm

The scripture has a lot of passages dealing with tongue as a two-edged sword.  A gentle tongue heals but uncontrolled tongue or words can pierce the soul.  As pastoral leader, who is like a shepherd that guides his flock, should be able to lead by example.  One of which is in the area of speech.  In the previous chapter, we talked about listening, and it will be difficult, if not a disaster, for our member to discover or HEAR that a pastoral leader is one that gossips, cannot contain confidentiality, spreading lies, uttering curses, raising voices, going into argument, and all the other examples as illustrated by Watchman Nee.  It is important for a pastoral leader to have the trust and confidence of their members in this basic form of speech.  

I think of all forms of careless talk, the most grievous is the "evil habit of telling lies" and as Watchman Nee said: "the intent to deceive is a heart matter....  The devil is the author of lies, and since all lies originate with him, how can anyone who is
professedly devoted to the Lord lend his lips to utter words that are instigated by His enemy?"

This form of careless talk about telling lies will have dire consequences for a Pastoral Leader.  Trust and Confidence will dissipate.  I just couldn't imagine how it's gonna be in such a scenario.  

Very good answers, Johnny.  Thank you. 

On the first point, let me just add a couple of additional points.  First, as a senior pastoral worker, there will be occasions when we have a chance to speak to a larger audience beyond our small group.  In these situations, the power of our message will be severely diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypcorite" comes to mind.  Right?  So, we need to be careful at all times when we’re around our brothers and sisters.

But think about that for a moment, because we should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second point, you got it spot on.  Deceptive speech is what Watchman Nee highlights as most serious, most grave.  You agree, I hope? 

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood ... exaggeration, disguised truth, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  We need to be very very watchful about this. 

Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 3:29 pm

Quote from Erick Flores on December 8, 2024, 5:05 am

1. It is more important for us as PL and SL because, first, it is our humble response to the command of Jesus to be holy as the Father is holy.

And second, as we care for our members, we want to present them fully mature in Christ by God’s grace and by being a good example.

2. According to Watchman Nee, the gravest form of careless talk is Deceptive speech which is the close kinsman of telling lies.

Deception happens not only when we intentionally do it to others but also when we believe half truths and therefore falsely present truths away from its full understanding. Jesus, whom we proclaim, is the way, the truth and the life. Misleading others with our speech can lead to spiritual death.

Hello Erick, I like the spiritual slant of your responses.  But allow me to provide some practical comments, which probably in your case is “needless to say”.  But let me put it out there anyway, just so that we’re on the same page.

On the first point, two things.  First, as a senior pastoral worker, there will be occasions when we have a chance to speak to a larger audience beyond our small group.  In these situations, the power of our message will be severely diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypcorite" comes to mind.  Right?  So, we need to be careful at all times when we’re around our brothers and sisters.

But think about that for a moment, because we should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second point, you got it spot on.  Deceptive speech is what Watchman Nee highlights as most serious, most grave.  You agree, I hope? 

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood ... exaggeration, disguised truth, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  We need to be very very watchful about this. 

Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 3:50 pm

Quote from Gary Cabalde on December 9, 2024, 4:01 pm

Reading through the file, the first word that came to mind was "GUILTY." I am guilty of these. Praise God and we have the community and our leaders who continue to guide us and help us recover from our frailties as senior leaders of LNP.
This is where the struggle of a normal layman vs what we ought to be as senior leaders of LNP vis-a-vis as a disciple of Christ. It hits me the most on my role in the office where tough decisions are made and sometimes leading to confrontations with others to arrive with an executive decision. Most of the time, they are not famous, but it has to be done being the leader of the company. Which one to me therefore is more important (now i ask myself)? Don't get me wrong. I don't curse, i don't shame others but words that come out of me are tough ones at times specially when confronted with difficult problems. Maybe this is one of the many reasons why people don't see me as an effective evangelizer of others because many see me as a tough and strict CFO. May God forgive me for failing Him in the role that He entrusted to me. I sometimes ask myself, "why don't i speak like Bobby Q or Raoul R" who are always cool and are not intimidating and thus making them very effective in their ministry. Obviously, i have a long way to go to become an effective evangelizer.
What is the most grievous one? SPEAKING A LIE as it comes from the devil. (Lord Jesus, have mercy on me on this area of my speech). Guilty on this area specially if you want to make the person feel good about himself/herself or cracking a joke just to start off a conversation. From now on, i will be more careful about this and if it is not true, i would pause for a while, utter a prayer, before i say anything.

I like your honesty and humility in this response, Gary.  Feeling ko dapat i-process kita pa ng mas maigi lalo na tungkol sa iyong guilt about being a tough-CFO, and your despair in not sounding (my words) like a good evangelizer.

First of all, yes, maybe you’re right.  It doesn’t make for a good evangelizer among our co-workers if we behave like tough, ruthless, impatient, and maybe insensitive dictators to our colleagues.  And by your admission, I suspect you need to grow in grace in this area.  I propose that you work with someone who can coach you here.  I am ready to volunteer myself, but maybe Joseph or Svahn can find someone more effective.  During the short period of our discipleship group, you never brought this up.  But I guess now that you have more senior roles, and you feel that you have authority and responsibility to fulfill, you’re taking on a different character that you feel is demanded of your role.  Anyway, sige, please, let’s move this forward as soon as possible. 

On the matter of Watchman Nee highlighting deceptive speech as being the most grievous, you’re right in spotting that.  And yes, we need to watch the way we manifest deceptive speech in its various variants:  ... exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  We need to be very very watchful about this. 

As I remarked to the other brothers in this study group, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our church constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?  In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Usap tayo, Gary.  I’m thinking maybe we can have that “fireside chat” with Kuya Rogie.  FYI, you’re not the only businessman in this Study Group who struggles with this.

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 4:43 pm

Quote from Jordan Echague on December 9, 2024, 9:24 pm

Quote from Eddie on October 31, 2024, 11:44 pm

Chapter 5 is entitled "RESTRAINED IN SPEECH".  Here, Watchman Nee highlights the importance of restraint in our speech, where Christian leaders like us need to have a disciplined and controlled tongue.  I hope you still remember our community teaching on Speech and Wrongdoing.   Much of what he talks about in this chapter is already covered in our basic teachings and way of life.   

Read the chapter carefully, to be reminded of  a few.  But there are several points that Watchman Nee highlights, and which are not covered in our teachings.  I have marked up the text and put some headings so that it will be easier for you to read.

Here are two simple reflection guides to tie all things together:

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?
2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

God bless us all.

1. As a Pastoral Worker guiding a community member in living our way of life, we need to be more careful with the things that we say and the opinions that we give.

In serving others we are instruments of God's message to those whom we serve. There is great responsibility and burden in doing God's work. A disciplined tongue means less of our personal biases. This gives the Holy Spirit more room to whisper His leadings to you when you put your self aside and put God first. And I believe that this our goal as Pastoral Workers, to call upon the Holy Spirit to help us in guiding our brothers to live a life pleasing to God.

2. Watchman Nee calls Deceptive Speech the gravest trouble we can get into.

This is very self-serving. Either we want to change the course of a situation to create a convenient solution for us, or we just want to avoid doing more work. 

This is a very disturbing topic for me. As someone who was trained in sales talk and marketing, adding fluff to soften messages comes natural to me. And in a way, this skill can possibly translate to a bad habit when serving God.

And therefore, I need to ask myself - Am I giving advice to my brother as God's servant? Or am I giving advice because I feel that I am wise and I know the way? Is this "wisdom" from the Lord or from my wit? Are my words, your words Lord?

I am made more aware of my pride and arrogance when I studied this chapter. Conversing selfishly can come with personal baggage not from the Lord. And as someone who takes pride in the things that I do, I am susceptible to being careless.

Hello Jordan.  Thank you for your reflection.  I find your responses deep and well thought out.

On the first point, you’re absolutely correct that we should always make sure our messaging when we pastor anyone, or when we speak or exhort the body, is inspired by the Holy Spirit and aligned to the will of God.

In addition to that, what Watchman Nee is highlighting in this topic is more about the “careless whispers”, the loose talk given in less guarded and pastoral setting.  In short, we need to be guarded in our speech at ALL times, which, as I said, is aligned with our Community teachings on “Speech and Wrongdoing.”

But even if we were to consider our pastoral roles, the power of our message in the podium will be severely diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypcorite" comes to mind.  Right?  So, we need to be careful at all times when we’re around our brothers and sisters.

But think about that for a moment, because we should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our pastoral constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second topic, Jordan, I appreciate your humility and honesty.  Your struggle in being truthful in your sales pitches is genuine.  And you need to be Christian first of all, before you are a businessman/sales executive.  And in this matter, you need to be watchful of the various layers of deceptive speech … all of which are unbecoming of a Christian.  These layers, or variants, include: exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  What more if they know that you are a believer and follower of Christ, right?  That would mean you’re a bad witness, wouldn’t it? 

And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments, and which should be the motive in all that we do. 

As I remarked to the other brothers in this study group, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our church constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?  In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

But it’s easier said than done, and I hear exactly what you’re saying, Jordan.  If you’re struggling in this area, Jordan, I highly recommend taking this up with your Pastoral Leader.  Perhaps, you should also seek out a Christian coach, who is experienced in this matter of honesty in the workplace.  I’d be happy to sit down with you some more on this, if you’d like.  And maybe we can have that “fireside chat” with Kuya Rogie.  FYI, you’re not the only businessman in this Study Group who struggles with this.

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 5:02 pm

Quote from Jorel Mateo on December 10, 2024, 10:21 pm

Chapter 5 is entitled "RESTRAINED IN SPEECH".  Here, Watchman Nee highlights the importance of restraint in our speech, where Christian leaders like us need to have a disciplined and controlled tongue.  I hope you still remember our community teaching on Speech and Wrongdoing.   Much of what he talks about in this chapter is already covered in our basic teachings and way of life.   

Read the chapter carefully, to be reminded of  a few.  But there are several points that Watchman Nee highlights, and which are not covered in our teachings.  I have marked up the text and put some headings so that it will be easier for you to read.

Here are two simple reflection guides to tie all things together:

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

As a PL or SL, we have a bigger responsibility to our members since:

1. We are looked upon as Role Models – whatever we say or do, our members can see or will see that they can follow or do the same since the PL/SL does or say it.
2. We give advice to the group of men we lead – we proclaim God’s word through our mouth, we must maintain order and caution. As what was explained, we have a SOLEMN OBLIGATION to guard these lips for His service alone.

 

2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

DECEPTIVE SPEECH – It is better to say YES if it’s really a YES, and say NO if it’s a NO.  We have a tendency to sugar coat and in so doing, our words result and mean to actually say the opposite of what we really want to convey.  I too have this weakness since I am the PLEASER type of person.  I don’t want to disappoint a person/friend through my words.  Reading this materials has opened my mind and heart that we should be more conscious of what we really mean and say about a a particular situation.  Remember, YES if YES and NO if NO.

Thank you for your answers, Jorel.  I believe that you have understood very well the message of Watchman Nee in this specific chapter.

Allow me to just add a few thoughts.

On the first matter, let’s remember that power of our message – whenever we’re talking to individuals or groups that we pastor -- will be severely diminished if we are careless in our speech when we're not on the podium.  The word "hypocrite" comes to mind.  Right?  So, we need to be careful at all times when we’re around our brothers and sisters.

But the truth is, even if we’re not in the company of brothers and sisters in community, we need to be careful in our speech patterns, whether at work, among friends, in public, or with family.    After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the church podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our pastoral constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second topic, I appreciate your humility and honesty.  In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with gracious speech, but if our motive in sounding sweet and pleasant to others is because we want to get something out of this, then we need to watch ourselves carefully.   The devil is in our motives. 

And this is why we need to be very very careful about the different variants of deceptive speech:  exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

As I remarked to the other brothers in this study group, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our church constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?  In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Lastly, Jorel, if you haven’t already done so, I suggest that you take this specific matter up with your Pastoral Leader, and ask for help and coaching in forming you in this spiritual virtue.  Actually, you’re not the only one in this Study Group who confesses problems in this area … and in fact, I’m thinking that we can probably have a live Fireside Chat together with Kuya Rogie at some point. 

Anyway, I urge you to move forward in this process of transformation, because I’m sure the Lord would like you to deal with this matter with much seriousness.  God bless you, Jorel.

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 5:23 pm

Quote from Henry Salim on December 11, 2024, 12:33 am

1.    It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

We have accepted the invitation of the Lord to be His instruments in taking care of the people He has sent our way. With this acceptance, we would like to offer Him as effective an instrument we can be. I donot discount His power to work within our imperfections but it would be some sort of duplicity to offer ourselves  to do something for Him and at the same time impair ourselves from fullfilling the very task He has asked us to do. In this case, if we donot discipline our speech, we make ourselves ineffective in doing our service.

The chapter enumerates how an unbridled tongue can wreak damage and havoc among our people.  This is especially true if we have people entrusted under our care. As individuals, we are called upon to discipline ourselves.  This calling is more critical if you have people you are leading. You are now not only responsible for yourself but also the actions of people under your care as a result of your actions which they see. We want to lead them to the Lord and not away from Him.  We want them to be blessings to others and not a curse.

This has made me think why would I take on this responsibility knowing that I am still very much a work in progress. The Lord was very quick and very clear in His reply. Have courage. You might feel short of the task but I will take care of what you lack.  I ask from you is a heart that is willing to do what I ask.

2.    Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

Lies and deceit, I would say would be the gravest form of careless talk.  I would not even call it careless because to lie and deceive  have a built in premeditated nature. God’s nature is truth. We are all called to the truth. To lie and to deceive is to mislead from the truth. To mislead is to go away from the truth. Deceit is bringing people away from God.

I appreciate your honesty, Henry.  And I love how you so giftedly articulate your response. 

Allow me to just add a few of my own thoughts on the matter. 

On the first topic, I’m sure it’s no surprise to you that God has a funny way of choosing who should serve Him.  And if you think you’re not fit because of certain flaws in your character, well, fall in line, brother.  I do believe that God commissions flawed men into service in order that HIS glory will abound, and not the glory of his “perfect” servant. 

Having said that, it does not excuse us from submitting ourselves to the discipline of correction, of training, and of hard work.  And, yes, we all need to be intentional in going through this lifelong process of transformation.  That’s why we covenant and bind ourselves to be disciples (students/learners/men-in-need-of-change); right? 

Now, on the topic itself, I just want to add – and I know it was not the emphasis in the question – that careful speech is needed whether in or out of the circle of brothers and sisters in community.  This is what we learn in the Community teaching on speech and wrongdoing. 

We need to be careful in our speech patterns, whether at work, among friends, in public, or with family.    After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the church podium, or in the street corner. 

Furthermore, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our pastoral constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20) Right?

On the second topic, you’re correct in identifying this as what Watchman Nee is highlighting.  Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood ... exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people see us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  And aside from the loss of trust and confidence, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  Amen?

Hope this helps, Henry.

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 10:39 pm

Quote from Brien Myles Villamiel on December 11, 2024, 9:36 pm

It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

I would say it's because of the responsibility, maturity, delegated authority and trust given to pastoral or senior Leaders, not just by their leaders but by community members as well... PLs and SLs are appointed & chosen to aid their coordinators in building community. As such, there is a need to mindful in how we carry ourselves in speech and action.

Buti na lang Grace abounds... that despite our humanity, we are called to be more and aim for heaven.

Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

Whatever has been offered to God is set apart for Him and cannot afterwards be put to common use...

For me, I feel the most grievous form is the one that denies us who we are, children of God... forgiven, redeemed and chosen. Indulging in careless and loose speech denies us of how we are loved first and how out of that immense love, God gave us His only beggoten son... kaya the words that we speak (and our own actions) should reflect as such that greatfulness... as described in the article, how can people believe in our words of redemption and transformation if we ourselves, in our carelessness, do not reflect what we say and encourage others to do.

I find your responses quite interesting, and profound, Brien.  Yes, as anointed leaders we need to be mindful of what is expected of us by those who selected us, and by the community who expect a higher degree of careful behavior and speech.  And yes, now that we’ve submitted our lives to the lordship of Jesus Christ, and we owe allegiance to the Lord for having chosen us despite who we were in our past.

We do, however, need to conduct ourselves in terms of our speech patterns and our verbal messaging in ways that befit not only our roles as Christian leaders, but also and first and foremost as followers of Jesus.  And there are important reasons for this.

We don’t want our speech to betray our chosen calling and allegiance to Jesus.  Because we are to be trusted with what we say when we’re speaking a pastoral message, then people expect consistency and integrity in our speech even when we’re not speaking from a position of pastoral authority.  And for that matter, even if we are not speaking as one with pastoral authority, we need to be conscious of what we witness to others who would know that we are Christians, when we are careless with our speech and when we converse in the pattern and manner as unbelievers.  Then people will not believe that the transformative power of Jesus means anything in our lives, and therefore will not be attracted to the life that Jesus offers.  “Integrity” – the same, whether in the podium or not; the same, whether conversing with fellow Christians or not.  That’s the point we need to pick up from what Watchman Nee is highlighting here.

Secondly, as for the most grievous kind of careless talk that Watchman Nee is referring to “deceptive speech”.   All forms of careless and loose speech betray our chosen calling.  But there are many kinds of careless speech, from gossip, to slander, to even hurtful words.  But the most grievous kind of careless speech, as highlighted by Watchman Nee, is deceptive speech.

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances of falsehood, namely exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people hear us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  Again, this would also lead them to question the power of the gospel in our life.  And from a most practical standpoint, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments. 

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  So that we can say, “It is no longer I, but Christ, who lives in me.”  (Gal 2:20) Amen?

Hope this helps, Brien.

Quote from Eddie on January 6, 2025, 11:24 pm

Quote from Alex Filamor on December 18, 2024, 9:07 am

1. Simply because we have a saying "follow the leader". We are all fathers and experienced raising our children, they can easily learn and catch what we are saying to them. So with our regular members, it is the same thing, they learn from us leaders.
2. For me, anything that you utter that does not conform to God's ways is grievous. Avoid "careless talk", if there is such a thing as "think before you click" we can do "pray before we speak". Pag nakapagbitiw ka na ng masakit an salita ang hirap ng makabawi.

Brothers, this is the area that God is teaching me to improve. Please pray for me that I will be able to speak words to brothers and sisters that God is glorified in every speech that I utter 🙏

Hi Alex.  I like the way you simplified the relevant points.  But actually, it’s not as simple as that.  There are actually important, and practical points that we need to focus on, as highlighted by Watchman Nee, when it comes to our speech patterns.

Firstly, yes, you are right that we need to be careful that we do not model to those whom we are discipling, bad and unchristian speech patterns.  And this is because we have been appointed to be positions of authority and pastoral leadership – and yes, we need to be proper role models of what we teach.  But beyond this, Watchman Nee says that there would be occasions when we, as leaders, are called to give a pastoral message.  And if we are careless with our speech patterns when we’re not speaking on the podium (as it were), then that would affect how people will accept or view what we “religiously” profess from the podium.  Right?  The word Jesus uses is hypocrisy.  The modern term we use is integrity. 

But the truth is, even if we’re not speaking in the company of brothers and sisters in community, we need to be careful in our speech patterns, whether at work, among friends, in public, or with family.    After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     How then can we proclaim the gospel and declare that the gospel has made an impact in our lives, if we talk carelessly? 

On the second matter, what you say is true.  Indeed, we need to be careful with what comes out of our mouth.  And this is what is called careless speech.  But there are many variants of careless speech: from slander, to gossip, to foul language, etc.  But the most grievous, the worst kind of all is “deceitful speech”.  This is what Watchman Nee says is the gravest of all.  I hope you agree. 

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances and various shades of falsehood, namely exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people overhear us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  Again, this would also lead them to question the power of the gospel in our life.  And from a most practical standpoint, any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments. And that’s why it’s the most serious of all types of careless speech.

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  So that we can say, “It is no longer I, but Christ, who lives in me.”  (Gal 2:20) Amen?

Lastly, I admire your honesty in admitting having problems in this area.  Yes, I shall pray for you.  But from a really practical standpoint, I suggest you raise this as a pastoral concern with your pastoral leader (or Coordinator), so that you can work out an effective pastoral plan that you will be held accountable for.  Some coaching might be helpful, and I hope you and your Coordinator can point you to someone, moving forward.  Someday, I’m sure, God will use you to coach others in this area.  And, by the way, you’re not the only brother in this Study Group who confessed to having problems here.

I hope this helps, Alex.  God bless you.

Quote from Eddie on January 7, 2025, 12:20 am

Quote from Gary Bogarin on December 30, 2024, 1:37 pm

1. As pastoral leader, every word spoken has the potential to shape the spiritual lives of our brothers and sisters. As PLs we set the example for our members and they watch our actions and words closely. If our actions and speech are careless or hurtful, it may give them the impression that such behavior is acceptable. We need to ensure that we use uplifting speech at all times in order to inspire them to do the same. As leaders, our words carry more weight. What we say can build up or tear down. An unkind or careless comment from a leader can discourage members, cause misunderstandings, or even create divisions within the community. But our words also have the power to unite, strengthen the weak, bring hope to the discouraged, and foster growth in our member's faith.
2. For me, the most grievous form of careless talk is gossip about fellow believers. Watchman Nee emphasizes that this kind of speech causes deep harm to the body of Christ, which is the church.

   When we talk negatively or spread unnecessary information about others, especially about our brothers and sisters in community, it damages relationships, creates divisions, and undermines trust within the community. Nee urges us Christians to guard our tongues, speak words that build up others, and reflect Christ’s love in our conversations.

You’ve made some interesting points in your reflection, Gary.

In the first instance, you’re right saying that we have to be careful that we model proper speech patterns when we converse with our members.  I like that you’re able to point out that aside from the harms caused by careless speech (discouragement, misunderstandings, divisions), we have, on the other hand, the opportunity to practice upbuilding speech. 

But is it possible to give a supposedly upbuilding exhortation but be ineffective?  The answer is “Yes”.  And this is the point Watchman Nee wants to make.  If we are careless in our speech when we’re not speaking in the podium, or when we’re not pastoring our group, our credibility is affected, and therefore our effectiveness once we get on to that podium or give pastoral advise is totally diminished.  That’s why we have to be consistent in our gracious speech in and out of the podium.  Otherwise, the word Jesus would use to apply to us is “hypocrisy”.  And we don’t want that, do we?

Actually, even if we are not within earshot of our community members, we need to maintain integrity in our speech patterns outside.  Otherwise, how can we be effective witnesses and evangelizers of the gospel, if we behave like unbelievers with careless speech?

In the second item, we must know that there are different variants that fall under the category “careless speech”, ranging from foul language, to gossip, to slander, to putdowns, to words spoken in anger, etc.  But according to Watchman Nee the worst kind (the most grievous) is deceitful speech, speaking words that are untrue.  Hopefully you get his point here, Gary.

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances and various shades of falsehood, such as exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people overhear us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  Again, this would also lead them to question the power of the gospel in our life.  And from a most practical standpoint – and beyond the harm that slander and gossip could do -- any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments.  And that’s why it’s the most serious of all types of careless speech.  Would you agree?

In all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  So that we can say, “It is no longer I, but Christ, who lives in me.”  (Gal 2:20) Amen?

I hope this makes sense, and that this helps, Gary.  God bless you.

Quote from Eddie on January 7, 2025, 1:04 am

Quote from Noel Lugue on December 30, 2024, 1:56 pm

1. It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community? Having a disciplined and restrained tongue is indeed more important for Pastoral and  Senior leaders because of :         -The number of people under him/her                                                                              Leaders normally have 6 people in a cell group and Senior Leaders when they are track head have about three leaders under him. The impact of any destructive speech is automatically multiplied at the onset                                      -PLs and SLs are role models.                                                                                                    Actually , this is expected to all leaders. That we walk the talk. That we become models of positive speech. Ephesians 4: "Do not let unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen." If a member who is weak in gossiping finds his PL gossiping , then that would encourage this member to continue his gossiping . He will acquire an invisible license and statement na " Ok lang naman pala, kasi yung leader ko na mabait naman ay gossiper din"
2. Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.                                              According to Nee, "We have spoken of various defects of character that mar the life and ministry of many Christians,
   but if our trouble is an unbridled tongue it is more serious than all the others we have mentioned,
   for the careless words the tongue utters release a deadly stream that flows on and on spreading
   death wherever it goes. "                                                                                                    I fully agree that an unbridled tongue is  more serious. Imagine if through the years of being a Christian, you have uttered  three or five  destructive words that brought about negative effects on peoples  lives, amidst you being careful of your speech, how much more if you have an uncontrolled and unbridled tongue.?   Maraming Forest fires if we based it on                                                James 3:5. "..consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.

I’m happy for your response, Noel.  And I love the scriptural reference that speaks the truth on this topic.

In the first question, you’re absolutely right in pointing out the responsibility of the pastoral leaders to model to the members whom he is discipling and under his pastoral oversight the appropriate behaviors expected of a Christian.  And indeed, we need to be watchful of those forest fires that we could cause.

But speaking of walking the talk, Watchman emphasizes that because we are in some position of authority in Ligaya, what we say should be taken more seriously by your audience when we exhort or when we give pastoral advice.  But if we are notoriously careless in our casual speech, how then will our flock put credibility to us when we speak to them from the podium?  I think the word Jesus would use is “hypocrite”.  Ouch.  Not only would our careless speech hurt those who are the target subjects of our words, it would also hurt our credibility, and our effectiveness in personal witnessing and exhorting.

Allow me to add just one more thing on this point, Noel.  We should really be consistent whether speaking in community or in general public.  After all, we profess ourselves to be Christians, followers of Jesus, and so we cannot be behaving "holy" in community, but "normal and worldly" when we're out in the world.  How effective an evangelizer would we be if we’re careless in our speech, right? 

Jesus says, "Your light must shine before others ...." referring to this dark world, and not just in our church/community.     I think the term we use is "integrity" -- namely, we need to be the same person whether in the podium, or in the street corner. 

The point is, we stand as a witness at all times, whether to our constituents or not.  We always need to speak in all circumstances as if it was Christ speaking through us.  Ika nga, "It's no longer I, but Christ who lives in me." (Gal 2:20)  And this is because when it comes time to speak the genuine message of the gospel, the credibility of the messenger (namely ourselves) is critical in order that the message will bear fruit. Right?

On the second point, your answer points to the general danger of an unbridled tongue.  But if you think about it, there are different varieties of careless speech.  It can be words of anger.  It can be gossip or slander.  It can be hurtful words, and putdowns.  And so on.  But of all these kinds of careless speech, there is one that Watchman Nee says is the worst kind, the most grievous kind.  And that is deceitful speech!  That’s the worst, Watchman Nee says. 

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances and various shades of falsehood, that we have a tendency to be guilty of.  Here, I’m referring to exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You can probably add some more to that list.  But we need to be very, very watchful of this.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people overhear us being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  Again, this would also lead them to question the power of the gospel in our life.  And from a most practical standpoint – and beyond the harm that slander and gossip could do -- any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments.  And that’s why it’s the most serious of all types of careless speech.  Would you agree?

I guess the best way to summarize this lesson is that in all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  So that we can say, “It is no longer I, but Christ, who lives in me.”  (Gal 2:20)  Amen?

I hope this makes sense, and that this helps, Noel.  God bless you.

Quote from Eddie on January 7, 2025, 1:51 pm

Quote from Gary Mercado on December 30, 2024, 2:03 pm

It is important indeed to have a disciplined and restrained tongue.  But why would that be particularly more important for a pastoral or senior leader than for a regular member of the Community?

It is important for all of us to have a disciplined and retrained tongue. Moreso for leaders of the community, as I believe that our positions are anointed by God and as such, our tongues are consecrated to speak the words of God. Yet though our tongues are consecrated to utter the words of God, we are still humanly in control of its use. Thus we can misuse this tool in many ways. As an anointed leader, the listener presumes that the words you utter are inspired hence it can easily and powerfully deceive another. Further, the words of a leader goes way beyond the person it is spoken to but is multiplied many times over. The deception and miscommunication, intentional or otherwise, has a greater impact and will be more destructive. 

Of all the forms of careless talk, what – according to Watchman Nee – is the most grievous?   Explain why, in your own words.

Deceptive talk is the gravest. I believe that with deceptive talk in some way there is intent to lie. Lie to protect oneself, to preserve “harmony”, or to hide one’s ignorance are still all lies which is the work of the evil one. It allows the devil to use your consecrated tongue to do evil wishes. Deceptive speech destroys you as a speaker and the hapless listener. 

Words and phrases that spoke to me are:

avoid diplomacy in Christian work

resort to silence and never to diplomacy

be simple concerning evil

Good day Brothers. 

Gary, in your first response, you have summarized very well the key points made by Watchman Nee in this piece.  Let me just add one specific caution that Watchman Nee highlighted.  Apart from the potential damage (e.g., the hurt or the scandal or the bad modeling) that our careless speech can cause on the listeners, there is one additional important point that Watchman Nee wants us to pay attention to. 

Let me ask you this:  can a pastoral head such as you deliver an “inspired” exhortation but still be ineffective?  According to Watchman Nee, the answer is “Yes” … and this is brought about when the same pastoral head is careless in his speech patterns when he’s not in the podium.  His behavior outside of the podium taints his credibility, his authenticity, and his integrity.  It reveals who he really is on the inside, and therefore why would people listen to him?  Jesus would use the term “hypocrisy”, remember? 

In the same manner, a professed Christian whether a leader or not, is ineffective as an evangelizer if he is careless in his speech patterns in the ordinary course of life.  Right?

On the second reflection point, you are indeed correct.  Careless speech comes in various forms: It can be words of anger.  It can be gossip or slander.  It can be hurtful words, and putdowns.  And so on.  But of all these kinds of careless speech, there is one that Watchman Nee says is the worst kind, the most grievous kind.  And that is deceitful speech nga! 

Let me just add that while we don't specifically talk about this (deceptive speech) in our teachings on speech and wrongdoing, because maybe we presume that everybody knows that "it's a sin to tell a lie", we need to be aware of the nuances and various shades of falsehood, that we have a tendency to be guilty of.  Here, I’m referring to exaggeration, disguised truth, insincere flattery, unkind putdowns, false impressions, incomplete disclosure, etc.  You yourself listed this in your response.  But whatever variant it is, we need to be very, very watchful of these.  Not just as servant leaders, but as Christians, first and foremost.

Obviously, if people overhear us (you refer to as “hapless listener”) being deceptive in our speech, say, when we're talking to other people, those who know the truth and know that we're not being truthful will lose trust and confidence in us, right?  Again, this would also lead them to question the power of the gospel in our life.  And from a most practical standpoint – and beyond the harm that slander and gossip could do -- any and all deceptive speech is bound to have negative unintended consequences for those who act on the supposed "truth" that we tell them.  It's bound to do harm to someone else.  And this betrays the commandment to love, which is the greatest of all commandments.  And that’s why it’s the most serious of all types of careless speech.  Would you agree?

Finally, I like your top-rated takes on those phrases from Watchman Nee:  “avoid diplomacy” “be simple concerning evil”.  I think this is most helpful to you as a physician, right?  But, it works in other matters as well; especially pastoral matters.  I myself actually follow that mindset, at the risk of sounding unapproachable and fearsome.  Haha.  But my intentions are pure, and those who have developed an appetite for my style appreciate the honesty.  Good luck to you, Gary. 

Basta, remember: in all things that come out of our mouths, we need to speak as if it was Jesus speaking through us.  At all times.  So that we can say, “It is no longer I, but Christ, who lives in me.”  (Gal 2:20)  Amen?