Reflection Guide for CHAPTER 4
Brothers,
This chapter is quite instructional and relatively straightforward compared to the first three chapters we’ve read so far in this series. Please share your thoughts and assessments on the following:
- In the first part of the article, Watchman Nee points out 3 different kinds of messages that we need to be able to discern whenever we are discussing a difficult personal concern during a one-on-one session with someone under our care. What has been your experience so far in achieving these goals, and how would you rate yourself?
- In the second part of the article, Watchman Nee gives three do’s and don’ts that will help us improve our listening skill and in achieving the earlier-stated set of listening goals. Which of these three techniques -- if you could apply well -- do you think will significantly improve your ability to listen well? What mindset must you change, or what actions must you take in order to grow in that important listening skill? Compose a prayer asking for the Holy Spirit to let you grow in this skill.
- I think that, in general, getting a man to discuss his personal problems with you (another man) is a special challenge, regardless of your listening skills. It’s like the biggest challenge in discussing personal concerns with a man is discerning what he is not saying, or getting him to open up and honestly admit his problem/concern. Do you agree, and if so, why do you think men are a tough nut to crack? Other than what Watchman Nee points out here, what do you think are other effective ways by which you can get a man to open up his real personal concerns with you?
- GOD BLESS US ALL -
Uploaded files:- I classify my listening skills as "hybrid" as I encounter these 3 habits of listening style from time to time but admittedly, i am more inclined to only listen to what is mentioned to me. It takes so much patience and great love for your brother to always listen to him with you heart and get to the point that you immerse yourself into himself that you fully understand the things he said, refrained from saying and what his spirit is also conveying.
- It improves my listening skill every time i put myself in his shoes and look at his concerns from his angle. But sad to say, i am not consistent in applying this kind of habit at all times. What I’ve been doing lately is to also be mindful of the workings of the Holy Spirit while I am ministering to someone, asking the Lord what does He want me to say to this person while looking at the person eye-to-eye so as not to lose him/her; again very inconsistent in this matter
Father, I praise and honor you and I pray that I may do this more through others by listening to them lovingly and hear your people using my heart. May I be able to convey the right message that is pleasing to you Lord. I ask this in Jesus Name. Amen.
- I agree that men are a tough nut to crack. We are warriors and we don’t normally speak out what’s in our heart otherwise we may be seen as weak. One effective way that I’ve done in the past is to be with him in his interest/hobbies in life as much as I can and use that as an opportunity to discuss life, in all its seriousness and fun moments. In this way, we are able to build connections.
- I'm the type of listener who tends to focus on the substance of the story or discussion "no beating around the Bush" or no BS story, please. I always take notes to have a reference to return if needed. After the listening part, I pray and clear my mind of any biases so I can discern properly.
- I'm the listener who puts myself into his/her situation. Kung baga what if ako ang nasa sitwasyon niya? This listening skill makes me more attentive to see thoroughly the bigger picture of what a person is trying to convey. Being subjective is the thing that makes me often fall into this trap.
- Lord, grant me a listening heart and mind always so I can better serve my brothers. Allow me to utter advice and directions based on your wisdom and not rely on my own thoughts.
- I agree that men are so tough a nut to crack, maybe because of ego or afraid of correction. Or another thing is that they don't want to show that they are weak. Sometimes a bottle or 2 of beer helps to loosen up a brother to open up. Make 1-1's casual or informal to release tensions.
Quote from Gary Cabalde on August 2, 2024, 3:55 pm
- I classify my listening skills as "hybrid" as I encounter these 3 habits of listening style from time to time but admittedly, i am more inclined to only listen to what is mentioned to me. It takes so much patience and great love for your brother to always listen to him with you heart and get to the point that you immerse yourself into himself that you fully understand the things he said, refrained from saying and what his spirit is also conveying.
- It improves my listening skill every time i put myself in his shoes and look at his concerns from his angle. But sad to say, i am not consistent in applying this kind of habit at all times. What I’ve been doing lately is to also be mindful of the workings of the Holy Spirit while I am ministering to someone, asking the Lord what does He want me to say to this person while looking at the person eye-to-eye so as not to lose him/her; again very inconsistent in this matter
Father, I praise and honor you and I pray that I may do this more through others by listening to them lovingly and hear your people using my heart. May I be able to convey the right message that is pleasing to you Lord. I ask this in Jesus Name. Amen.
- I agree that men are a tough nut to crack. We are warriors and we don’t normally speak out what’s in our heart otherwise we may be seen as weak. One effective way that I’ve done in the past is to be with him in his interest/hobbies in life as much as I can and use that as an opportunity to discuss life, in all its seriousness and fun moments. In this way, we are able to build connections.
Bro GaryC, thanks for your reflection. Indeed God always works in us in different ways. I like the "hybrid" type of your listening skill. Freeing our minds of any biases helps us to listen through our hearts. God bless 🙏
1. In the first part, Watchman Nee points out 3 different kinds of messages that we need to be able to discern whenever we are discussing a difficult personal concern during a one-on-one session with someone under our care. What has been your experience so far in achieving these goals, and how would you rate yourself?
- I would rate myself an 8/10. I always try to explore and understand where the brother is coming from, not taking everything in face value. Sometimes in order to understand fully his situation is to probe and ask more questions thereby 'making him reveal details' that he did not mention initially. It get's a little 'daunting' sometimes when the case is something I have not experienced personally. Prayers and more prayers are a big help for me to be able to empathize during these situations.
2. In the second part, Watchman Nee gives three do’s and don’ts that will help us
improve our listening skill and in achieving the earlier-stated set of listening goals.
Which of these three techniques -- if you could apply well -- do you think will
significantly improve your ability to listen well? What mindset must you change, or
what actions must you take in order to grow in that important listening skill?
Compose a prayer asking for the Holy Spirit to let you grow in this skill.
- I can improve more on not being subjective. Sometimes it can't be avoided that I become subjective (at first) and somehow have an initial idea of a certain issue or problem, but when probed further there are times that I see differently and clearly the brother's situation. I also always caution myself that it is not about me but the brother I am talking to. That I need to hear him out even before I speak. Lastly, I like the idea of listening to one's spirit. I need to grow in that area.
- Heavenly Father, I humbly seek your grace to allow me to grow in my listening skills. To grow in listening with my heart and eventually listen to someone else's spirit. May I be filled with your Spirit, ready to help and listen to a brother in need always, Amen+
3. I think that, in general, getting a man to discuss his personal problems with you
(another man) is a special challenge, regardless of your listening skills. It’s like the
biggest challenge in discussing personal concerns with a man is discerning what he is not saying, or getting him to open up and honestly admit his problem/concern. Do
you agree, and if so, why do you think men are a tough nut to crack? Other than what Watchman Nee points out here, what do you think are other effective ways by which you can get a man to open up his real personal concerns with you?
- I think by earning someone's trust and confidence. Good thing in community we are already taught that we love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ. For the men under my care they know that teachings, corrections and directions are all given out of love for them.
1, Unfortunately, I have not handled a group for quite some time. But on occasions when brothers come to me with their concerns, I must admit that at times, I do fall into the situation of really not listening and having an opinion immediately, as Watchman Nee says, we must not be subjective. This is the main reason why we all pray before our one-on-one sessions. To ask Him for his guidance and allow the Holy Spirit to make us hear and understand.
2. “Enter into the feelings of others” by doing so, I feel I am able to really understand the concern of the person and what he is going through. I must admit, that there are times when I become subjective and allow this to cloud my understanding.
Holy Spirit, grant me the grace to be compassionate. Help me to listen and understand. Grant me the wisdom to be able to listen to my brethren. Open my heart and mind and allow your Spirit to dwell more in me. Guide me, Lord.
3. I believe that before a brother can open up his real personal concerns, a solid relationship must be established first, a relationship of trust and brotherhood. Once that this has been established, it will be easier for the brother to open up. Like any relationship, one must get close in order for the other to be more open.
- The three different kinds of messages are very present in my role of serving young men. As they go about finishing their studies and pursuing their professional careers and extending themselves in community through different services, the need for intentional listening needless to say is very important. I have had brothers who are ready sharers of their lives – blessings and concerns at the onset, there are some who I have to gain their trust before they open up about anything. Over the years, I have overcome to urge to speak, to teach, to compare experiences. The time spent for one to one sessions is dedicated to taking notes, probing to understand the situation of the brother better and try to recap what he means and he wants to get out of the conversation. Then I ask permission to impart any reaction, knowledge if he is open to it (they usually are naman). Then plan for what’s next ahead (so it does not remain as a concern) and he wants me to play a part in it (ako din ba may assignment). Just because I have established my own steps for 1 to 1 and how to make it fruitful and life giving, I would give myself a 4 out of 5 rating.
- Of the three techniques, “we must not woolgather” is my obvious concern. Having the mental discipline to just focus on finishing one task from another is a major goal for me. In order to gain mental discipline, I protect schedules with the brothers in my men’s group both the group meetings and the ones to ones. And if I gain some sort of free time, I invite brothers who are free to impromptu one to one just to get ahead especially those who have urgent concerns or decisions to make. Personally, I now deliberately sleep early. Cut down screen time. Get enough mind rest.
- I have had my share of my brothers who are ok to share and those who will shy away from being too personal in our one to ones. For the brothers, I have had shared a deeper bond of openness and trust to move along their discipleship journey in the Lord, I have subscribe to three ways: 1) Yes, listening siyempre. Sincere type. Kapag formal - taking notes, probing questions, listing action points. Informal lang. Usually over coffee or beer. Free flowing but taking mental notes. ; 2) Sacrifice. Brothers need to know you are invested in them not only in the time to listen but your own practical steps to move them forward or support them in their studies or careers. The easy ones are referrals for internships, job seeking or client prospects. The hard ones are times of need – difficult service, personal accidents, etc which needs the third way.; 3) Spiritual battle. You have to make a brother understand that there are long battles dealing with more difficult concerns. So they have to know that you are in it for the long haul – praying for one another, fasting and regular updating. Listen. Sacrifice. Spiritual battle.
I always see myself as a man of patience. I use patience whenever I talk and listen to someone. In serving community especially during Discussion Groups, Men’s Groups and One-to-Ones, I normally pray during the conversation. Half of me is listening to the person while the other half is praying/sensing/listening to the Lord. Simple prayer helps like asking the Lord: (1) what do you want me to say to this person; (2) use me at this moment; or (3) bless the intentions of this person. This is also very applicable to my children, as well, whenever we have discussions in both spiritual and practical areas of growth. One must also thank and acknowledge the Lord after the conversation for He guided our thoughts and words. I rate myself 7.5/10 since I have been doing this for more than 30 years and counting.
The spirit of the three techniques, I think, lies in a man’s heart to serve others. You will find yourself merciful, humble and compassionate when you put the other person first.
O Holy Spirit of God, align me to the Father and Son at all times. I pray that I may always die to myself and forego my self-interest to be able to do His will for me and serve His people.
I agree that real men are tough nuts to crack. I believe that manly relationships are not only found but are built over time. Men usually open up when they are with men they grow up with, men they look up to or men of the same interest. Before going into the real personal concerns, I choose to build on the relationship, spend time, initiate personal conversations and be dependable/available.
Finally, I love the last part of this chapter particularly the misconception that the primary essential of Christians is to be able to speak. Instead, we all need to abide in God to have spiritual clarity; we need discernment concerning the condition of all who seek us out; we need quietness of mind to hear them state their case; and we need quietness of spirit so that we can sense their true condition beyond their own definitions of it. These statements give me the confidence to serve the Lord more as a servant leader.
1.
Having done many one to one sessions with brothers, I feel that there are times I am able to listen and discern well on what the brother is saying, holding back and what is kept silent in the depth of his spirit. And I can only know it by the fruit of those sessions. Sometimes immediate and sometimes it takes time.
There are other times I don’t achieve those goals because I am filled with myself instead of allowing the Holy Spirit to work through me as I listen to another brother.
Rating myself as a good listener, I can say struggling 6/10 in terms of skills and ability. When I allow the Lord to use me, it can be 10/10. And when I hinder the Lord to work through me, it can be 0/10.
2.
Subjectivity.
Recently, I have learned as I responded to a brother and his loved ones in need from a calamity situation how subjectivity can endanger lives and health of a family. We were discussing plans and solutions to the brother’s family condition as the situation in their house worsen.
I thought I have listened well to his concern and we agreed to all the answers to their needs. This later on made me realize that I was responding with solutions that are convenient for me and subject to what I can offer.
Gladly, another brother was moved by the Lord to convince him to consider what the community can offer to ensure their safety and well being. And loving response from brothers and sisters outpoured. Receiving messages from the brother after that, I can hear peace from within his heart.
For the Lord’s thoughts are beyond my thoughts and His ways far better than my ways.
Prayer:
Come, Holy Spirit. Grant me the grace to be humble and empty my heart from my own self. Free me from any acts, thoughts and decisions that seeks pride and convenience. Especially, for the people You placed under my care.
Come, Holy Spirit, fill my heart. Everytime as I pray, listen to others, respond to their needs and do Your work each day.
Come, Holy Spirit. Grant my heart joy and peace. Knowing that at the end of the day I have followed Your will.
3.
Why do you think men are a tough nut to crack?
Yes, I agree. Our nature as protector can make us very cautious from revealing our self information, our weaknesses and our emotions. This can result to not being able to easily trust others.
Other than what Watchman Nee points out here, what do you think are other effective ways by which you can get a man to open up his real personal concerns with you?
In the context of our community, pastoral care. Even when I fail to listen well towards the concern of a brother or if I am not sure of the best response to a brothers need, I am confident that someone wiser is there to listen, advice, pray with me and even seek better counsel from other brothers to ensure that we have delivered the Lord’s care for the person in need.
Quote from Eddie on July 29, 2024, 10:41 amBrothers,
This chapter is quite instructional and relatively straightforward compared to the first three chapters we’ve read so far in this series. Please share your thoughts and assessments on the following:
- In the first part of the article, Watchman Nee points out 3 different kinds of messages that we need to be able to discern whenever we are discussing a difficult personal concern during a one-on-one session with someone under our care. What has been your experience so far in achieving these goals, and how would you rate yourself?
- In the second part of the article, Watchman Nee gives three do’s and don’ts that will help us improve our listening skill and in achieving the earlier-stated set of listening goals. Which of these three techniques -- if you could apply well -- do you think will significantly improve your ability to listen well? What mindset must you change, or what actions must you take in order to grow in that important listening skill? Compose a prayer asking for the Holy Spirit to let you grow in this skill.
- I think that, in general, getting a man to discuss his personal problems with you (another man) is a special challenge, regardless of your listening skills. It’s like the biggest challenge in discussing personal concerns with a man is discerning what he is not saying, or getting him to open up and honestly admit his problem/concern. Do you agree, and if so, why do you think men are a tough nut to crack? Other than what Watchman Nee points out here, what do you think are other effective ways by which you can get a man to open up his real personal concerns with you?
- GOD BLESS US ALL -
1. The 3 messages we need to be aware of:
"he should be able to discern three different kinds of speech – the words he is uttering; the words he is holding back; the words he cannot utter that lie in the depths of his spirit."
Chapter 4 of "The Normal Christian Worker" was able to shed light on areas I need to improve on as a listener and as a pastoral worker.
For one, I've always believed that listening to those under my pastoral care only involved the messages and words told to me. I would listen intently to these concerns and instead of finding solutions, my advice is always to seek the Lord in the decisions he must make. I would offer instances in my life where I encountered similar circumstances as my form of advice as to not meddle or interfere with their decision-making. I totally leave it up to them but am with them each step that they take.
In this chapter, Watchman Nee tells me to look beyond the "declared" messages and seek to spirit in listening to the words which were unsaid and the issues that were undeclared. These points slightly align to my way of listening as it can widen my pastoral mind in delving with the concern.
That leads me to a new approach whenever I listen to people seeking my advice. My heart needs to be more sensitive to the leadings of the Holy Spirit. And I must learn to listen with a different mindset. That I be used by God to give a perspective in-line with His plans for the concerned brother. And for me to do that, I need to shift gears in the way that I listen.
I grade myself a respectable B- for my efforts in listening. But I have a long way to go before I get that A.
2. The 3 Do's and Don'ts are: to not be subjective, to not woolgather, and to learn to enter into the feelings of others.
Among the 3, "Learning to enter the feelings of others" would be the one that I need to improve on the most and will definitely help me as a listener.
This involves being extremely sensitive to the Holy Spirit to allow me to put myself in the shoes of the person I'm listening to. Sensing the different aspects of his concern outside of what he is saying would need a certain type of patience that I dont think I have yet. It also means that I have to discern and "diagnose" properly his concern. As someone who does not find it comfortable in meddling or coming in between situations that dont involve me, I believe that I need a lot of God's grace to be able to lose myself and be in the person's shoes.
Lord, I ask for the grace to humbly listen to others and to allow Your Spirit to work in me. I pray for Your guidance in being your instrument of love to all those who seek your Will. And may I work to do your work always.
3. Naturally, I believe that men are less open to share their concerns than women. And in my case, it's difficult for me to even admit mistakes, wrongdoing, or weaknesses. As natural providers for the family, and natural leaders, showing weakness is not easy. Therefore, processing these concerns makes things more difficult for men in general, based on my experiences.
The best way for me to get a brother to open up is to establish a good relationship/friendship first. It's more comfortable to open up to someone familiar. And then I do my best to not show my reactions or my initial impressions. This is where this chapter comes in. Reserving judgment or biases is good when listening because a discussion or conversation begins instead of the other brother trying to defend his decision making.
Finally, I feel that it is easier for a brother to share his concerns and to seek counsel from you if you have earned his respect. If you've established that you make good choices in life and that you have a sincere heart in listening, I believe that men come for advice seeking a similar trend.
"Lord, I ask for the grace to humbly listen to others and to allow Your Spirit to work in me. I pray for Your guidance in being your instrument of love to all those who seek your Will. And may I work to do your work always."
AMEN. I am one with you in this prayer, Jordan.
- I would like to think of myself as a good listener. Going through this material made me reexamine this belief. I am fairly good in hearing the spoken word but I feel there is still a lot of room for improvement. The everyday busyness of life, the distractions and noise that is in our everyday environment makes it very difficult for me to sit down and give the required time and attention needed to be a good listener.
I start out with the intention of really listening and it does work out for sometime but it seems my biggest obstacle to listening is myself. I have been blessed with a mind that is hotwired to see patterns and fill in gaps. With enough inputs I am able to analyze and deduce situations and outcomes based on previous experiences and data with a reasonable accuracy. Within a few minutes of a conversation, I am able to more or less piece together the situation. This coupled with the sense of haste brought about by what I described above, I inadvertently move from listening mode to prescription mode. Instead of trying to understand more, I assume I have enough information to fix the situation. I can only get to understand what the other person is saying at the most but miss out on the more deep and nuance details of the narration. Although I believe I am able to help out my brothers and sisters, I think I could be of more service if I can only listen more.
- I have to constantly guard myself from jumping into conclusions. As I have said, because of self imposed sense of lack of time vis a vis the things I need to get done, my mind goes into hyperdrive and puts together the narrative without waiting for the other person to finish talking. This of course may result in me not seeing the whole picture, making false assumptions and out right getting the story wrong.
Another thing that I have to battle is keeping my focus. My mind has a tendency to wander. If my mind starts to be convinced that it has grasped the situation, it starts to defocus on listening and starts to work on the other tasks that are queued up.
I pray that the Holy Spirit gives me the grace to see the person I am speaking to as more important than me, than my concerns, than anything I have to do. Likewise I pray for the grace to be still and just allow myself to be God’s ear to my brother or sister.
- Men are expected to be strong and resilient to bear the weight of the responsibilities society puts on them. Men are raised to be stoic and bear this burden silently. Discussing ones problems with another is seen to be an admission of weakness.
A relationship is a good start. A man will not make himself vulnerable to a casual acquaintance. We need to work on forming a deep and meaningful relationship to even have a chance of being allowed by a brother into his life. This would mean a lot of time and a lot of listening.
This material made me realize that I should be patient and prodigal with the time I give to my brothers as God is patient and prodigal with me with His.
Quote from James Labayo on August 30, 2024, 1:16 amI always see myself as a man of patience. I use patience whenever I talk and listen to someone. In serving community especially during Discussion Groups, Men’s Groups and One-to-Ones, I normally pray during the conversation. Half of me is listening to the person while the other half is praying/sensing/listening to the Lord. Simple prayer helps like asking the Lord: (1) what do you want me to say to this person; (2) use me at this moment; or (3) bless the intentions of this person. This is also very applicable to my children, as well, whenever we have discussions in both spiritual and practical areas of growth. One must also thank and acknowledge the Lord after the conversation for He guided our thoughts and words. I rate myself 7.5/10 since I have been doing this for more than 30 years and counting.
The spirit of the three techniques, I think, lies in a man’s heart to serve others. You will find yourself merciful, humble and compassionate when you put the other person first.
O Holy Spirit of God, align me to the Father and Son at all times. I pray that I may always die to myself and forego my self-interest to be able to do His will for me and serve His people.
I agree that real men are tough nuts to crack. I believe that manly relationships are not only found but are built over time. Men usually open up when they are with men they grow up with, men they look up to or men of the same interest. Before going into the real personal concerns, I choose to build on the relationship, spend time, initiate personal conversations and be dependable/available.
Finally, I love the last part of this chapter particularly the misconception that the primary essential of Christians is to be able to speak. Instead, we all need to abide in God to have spiritual clarity; we need discernment concerning the condition of all who seek us out; we need quietness of mind to hear them state their case; and we need quietness of spirit so that we can sense their true condition beyond their own definitions of it. These statements give me the confidence to serve the Lord more as a servant leader.
Hi James,
Your reflections reminded me that listening does not only depend on me but also requires the grace from the Lord. We must always pray and allow the Lord to be part of the conversation.
I also agree with you that to be a good listener is to put the other person above oneself. To recognize that he is more important than our other concerns.
Lastly you aptly put that to be able to pastor a brother well, one must have a relationship that is formed by time, dependability and availability.
God bless brother.
Quote from Alex Filamor on August 7, 2024, 6:26 pm
- I'm the type of listener who tends to focus on the substance of the story or discussion "no beating around the Bush" or no BS story, please. I always take notes to have a reference to return if needed. After the listening part, I pray and clear my mind of any biases so I can discern properly.
- I'm the listener who puts myself into his/her situation. Kung baga what if ako ang nasa sitwasyon niya? This listening skill makes me more attentive to see thoroughly the bigger picture of what a person is trying to convey. Being subjective is the thing that makes me often fall into this trap.
- Lord, grant me a listening heart and mind always so I can better serve my brothers. Allow me to utter advice and directions based on your wisdom and not rely on my own thoughts.
- I agree that men are so tough a nut to crack, maybe because of ego or afraid of correction. Or another thing is that they don't want to show that they are weak. Sometimes a bottle or 2 of beer helps to loosen up a brother to open up. Make 1-1's casual or informal to release tensions.
Hi Alex,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
You have reminded me of the truth that what we do is God's work. We donot have to be weighed down with the thinking that to be able to do what He asked us to do rest on our own innate abilities. He not only provides us the grace to do it but also the grace to guide us how to do it. All we have to do is to cooperate with His grace.
You also pointed out that to be a good listener, we should be able to put ourselves in the other person's circumstances so that we can understand and provide good counsel.
Lastly, I agree with you the setting of the conversation with a brother is critical in having a good and honest conversation. We are always on our toes because of the role we play. As such our guard is always up. A setting wherein a brother feel secure and where he can take off his armor so to speak will give us an opportunity to break through the walls that the brother built around himself.
God bless brother.
- I am very much a work in progress regarding discerning the 3 different kinds of messages:
- the words he is uttering – when I was new in leading small groups, I tended to remember the specific details that a brother has shared to me. Now, I realize a bad habit of not remembering enough since I wanted to focus on what I think are the important aspects (in the name of convenience), when there might be more critical matters in the other details being shared.
- the words he is holding back – having some background in audit, I do have a tendency to dig further than what was said and even challenge the statements. However, I have a tendency to test out my hypothesis, usually based on logic alone, which is naturally biased based on experience and convenience (again). I may be simplifying or leading the discussion towards an area or conclusion that I am comfortable with, in order to dispense tried and tested solutions, as Watchman Nee has explained.
- the words that he cannot utter that lie in the depths of his spirit – We do say a prayer and invite the Spirit before having a 1-to-1 but I need to listen to the Spirit more while we are having the conversation.
- I think I need to improve most in not being subjective. I have a tendency to put decisions into context based on historical data or an established theory. It is difficult for me to listen with a blank slate, that actually relies more on the work of the Spirit than on pure reasoning.
Come, Holy Spirit. We praise and thank You for all You are doing in our lives. Work in me and in those that I encounter that we may yield to Your leading and be filled with Your grace. Free us from any bondage of the world and of the flesh, and protect us from any attacks of the evil one. May I be able to listen well to my brother and to You. May our conversation bear forth fruit that You desire. May all that we say and do be for Your greater glory. Amen.
3. Yes, I agree that a man has a tendency to keep to himself and try to solve the problem on his own (or with the Lord alone) and would not want to bother others regarding his personal concerns. I think that men would open up more given time and seeing consistency that those who open up are not condemned but helped in a brotherly way (i.e encouraging, life-giving). To some extent, the leader may also share his challenges to show that it is nothing to be ashamed of. Also, I have opened to the brothers that I need their help for me to serve them as their pastoral leader, and it may also trigger men’s tendency to want to be of help. Lastly, I have experienced the most powerful 1-to-1s during or after retreats, so joining these may allow them to be moved by the Spirit in these “God moments”.
- In my current job, we were trained to do consultative selling where we get to listen to our customers more than presenting our solutions. Despite this, I still am tempted to focus more on giving input rather than having an attentive mind and heart. I must admit that I am still a work in progress in this area and might need more practice to fully grasp the Christian way of thinking. I personally rate myself 4/10 in this area.
- Listening sympathetically is a technique that I need to focus and improve on. There’s a tendency that we undermine what people under our care is really going thru. Based on the article, we can only listen with a discerning mind and heart guided by God. To put oneself on the shoe of the brother experiencing these concerns, helps me see a big and deeper picture of the situation and the brother’s response to these concerns. This will significantly change the way I will respond to the brother’s concern allowing him to be more open. My prayer: Lord Jesus, teach me your ways to see beyond my brother’s concerns. Teach me to fully discern before giving my own personal response. Teach to me to listen more with empathy and with a discerning heart, mind and speech.
- I totally agree on this. Most men usually only share their concerns when they already overcome the obstacle. I think this is man’s natural behavior as we dont want to have an image of a weak man. The tendency to show that we can always conquer these challenges. What we miss out with this kind of attitude is the wisdom that we can get from our leader and the wisdom from God. Possible effective way to develop our member’s attitude to be more open is thru the way we also share what we experience and how it helped us conquer this concern thru the wisdom of our leaders. In this way, they will realize that opening up more, is a good way to unload some of the burden and be blessed by our leader’s guidance.
- In the first part of the article, Watchman Nee points out 3 different kinds of messages that we need to be able to discern whenever we are discussing a difficult personal concern during a one-on-one session with someone under our care. What has been your experience so far in achieving these goals, and how would you rate yourself? These 3 different kinds of messages are : The words he is uttering , The words he is holding and the words he cannot utter . The discussion will really depend on guidance of the Holy Spirit, relationship,experiences, and the maturity of the other party. This means that , PRAYER is important during one to ones. If I will be talking to a mature Christian who has a problem and sought my advise, the words that he will say will probably be mostly direct to the point. This will fall to the "words he is uttering" .For example , I have a member, who has financial difficulty. He may have a short intro , but eventually he will ask help for his electric bills.
Based on my years of experience in having one to one, a person is probably holding back , when his replies are Yes ,No or ok lang. while I listen, I can ask questions not answerable by Yes or No. Likewise ,when a person is in sin or fault, he cannot look straight in your eye and has a tendency to not to share his difficulty . This now falls under " those that he cannot utter ,the lie under the depth of his Spirit.'. The only way to get through is thru compassioning. As the article would put it, being with their
However, in all of the above , it is a challenge for me to listen because, the experiences clearly make me biase or even judgemental even before he speaks.
Praise God that the prayer to the Holy Spirit always work wonders, amidst my trying my best to listen.
2. In the second part of the article, Watchman Nee gives three do’s and don’ts that will help us improve our listening skill and in achieving the earlier-stated set of listening goals. Which of these three techniques -- if you could apply well -- do you think will significantly improve your ability to listen well? What mindset must you change, or what actions must you take in order to grow in that important listening skill? Compose a prayer asking for the Holy Spirit to let you grow in this skill.
Don't be Subjective.
As mentioned, With years of experience , it is easy for me to be subjective.
There are times that I am eager to speak rather than to listen. To use my knowledge or advise using my canned advise.
I think that, in general, getting a man to discuss his personal problems with you (another man) is a special challenge, regardless of your listening skills. It’s like the biggest challenge in discussing personal concerns with a man is discerning what he is not saying, or getting him to open up and honestly admit his problem/concern. Do you agree, and if so, why do you think men are a tough nut to crack? Other than what Watchman Nee points out here, what do you think are other effective ways by which you can get a man to open up his real personal concerns with you?
I would try to talk about his language or things close to his heart like cars, business, family,etc , while constantly praying to the Spirit .
Then later , slowly move to the discussion of extracting his openness amidst
Holy Spirit,
Grant me that special grace to listen. to discern what the other is trying to say from the depths of his heart . Teach me to be compassionate , to put myself to his shoes. So that I may be able to help and minister well to those who seek my help.
Amen
Quote from Alex Filamor on August 7, 2024, 6:26 pm
- I'm the type of listener who tends to focus on the substance of the story or discussion "no beating around the Bush" or no BS story, please. I always take notes to have a reference to return if needed. After the listening part, I pray and clear my mind of any biases so I can discern properly.
- I'm the listener who puts myself into his/her situation. Kung baga what if ako ang nasa sitwasyon niya? This listening skill makes me more attentive to see thoroughly the bigger picture of what a person is trying to convey. Being subjective is the thing that makes me often fall into this trap.
- Lord, grant me a listening heart and mind always so I can better serve my brothers. Allow me to utter advice and directions based on your wisdom and not rely on my own thoughts.
- I agree that men are so tough a nut to crack, maybe because of ego or afraid of correction. Or another thing is that they don't want to show that they are weak. Sometimes a bottle or 2 of beer helps to loosen up a brother to open up. Make 1-1's casual or informal to release tensions.
I agree with you bro, lalo na if the brother you are having a 1-1 with is new to you or has no established personal relationship with you. Kaya key sa atin is to develop personal relationships with those under our care.. show them that we are making ourselves vulnerable [or available] to them.
A challenge indeed... but a challenge worth taking on, as we encourage one another to live this life that have been called.
Quote from Henry Salim on September 5, 2024, 4:01 pm
- I would like to think of myself as a good listener. Going through this material made me reexamine this belief. I am fairly good in hearing the spoken word but I feel there is still a lot of room for improvement. The everyday busyness of life, the distractions and noise that is in our everyday environment makes it very difficult for me to sit down and give the required time and attention needed to be a good listener.
I start out with the intention of really listening and it does work out for sometime but it seems my biggest obstacle to listening is myself. I have been blessed with a mind that is hotwired to see patterns and fill in gaps. With enough inputs I am able to analyze and deduce situations and outcomes based on previous experiences and data with a reasonable accuracy. Within a few minutes of a conversation, I am able to more or less piece together the situation. This coupled with the sense of haste brought about by what I described above, I inadvertently move from listening mode to prescription mode. Instead of trying to understand more, I assume I have enough information to fix the situation. I can only get to understand what the other person is saying at the most but miss out on the more deep and nuance details of the narration. Although I believe I am able to help out my brothers and sisters, I think I could be of more service if I can only listen more.
- I have to constantly guard myself from jumping into conclusions. As I have said, because of self imposed sense of lack of time vis a vis the things I need to get done, my mind goes into hyperdrive and puts together the narrative without waiting for the other person to finish talking. This of course may result in me not seeing the whole picture, making false assumptions and out right getting the story wrong.
Another thing that I have to battle is keeping my focus. My mind has a tendency to wander. If my mind starts to be convinced that it has grasped the situation, it starts to defocus on listening and starts to work on the other tasks that are queued up.
I pray that the Holy Spirit gives me the grace to see the person I am speaking to as more important than me, than my concerns, than anything I have to do. Likewise I pray for the grace to be still and just allow myself to be God’s ear to my brother or sister.
- Men are expected to be strong and resilient to bear the weight of the responsibilities society puts on them. Men are raised to be stoic and bear this burden silently. Discussing ones problems with another is seen to be an admission of weakness.
A relationship is a good start. A man will not make himself vulnerable to a casual acquaintance. We need to work on forming a deep and meaningful relationship to even have a chance of being allowed by a brother into his life. This would mean a lot of time and a lot of listening.
This material made me realize that I should be patient and prodigal with the time I give to my brothers as God is patient and prodigal with me with His.
sabi nga ni Duke after every episode of GI Joe, KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE. It seems bro you are very self-aware of who you, the next step is being able to mindful of it and take the steps towards self-improvement.
Being "hotwired" to seek solutions first is a very manly trait... remember how Jesus replied to the accusers of a woman caught in Adultery... he drew in the sand before saying, He who has not sinned cast the first stone.
Jesus may have handled this differently and yet He withheld himself from replying immediately, listened (or even discerned the situation)as he wrote on the sand and responded accordingly.
Neither am I perfect, but this I do I Press On... one step at a time bro. we'll get there eventually
Quote from Jordan Echague on September 3, 2024, 11:15 amQuote from Eddie on July 29, 2024, 10:41 amBrothers,
This chapter is quite instructional and relatively straightforward compared to the first three chapters we’ve read so far in this series. Please share your thoughts and assessments on the following:
- In the first part of the article, Watchman Nee points out 3 different kinds of messages that we need to be able to discern whenever we are discussing a difficult personal concern during a one-on-one session with someone under our care. What has been your experience so far in achieving these goals, and how would you rate yourself?
- In the second part of the article, Watchman Nee gives three do’s and don’ts that will help us improve our listening skill and in achieving the earlier-stated set of listening goals. Which of these three techniques -- if you could apply well -- do you think will significantly improve your ability to listen well? What mindset must you change, or what actions must you take in order to grow in that important listening skill? Compose a prayer asking for the Holy Spirit to let you grow in this skill.
- I think that, in general, getting a man to discuss his personal problems with you (another man) is a special challenge, regardless of your listening skills. It’s like the biggest challenge in discussing personal concerns with a man is discerning what he is not saying, or getting him to open up and honestly admit his problem/concern. Do you agree, and if so, why do you think men are a tough nut to crack? Other than what Watchman Nee points out here, what do you think are other effective ways by which you can get a man to open up his real personal concerns with you?
- GOD BLESS US ALL -
1. The 3 messages we need to be aware of:
"he should be able to discern three different kinds of speech – the words he is uttering; the words he is holding back; the words he cannot utter that lie in the depths of his spirit."
Chapter 4 of "The Normal Christian Worker" was able to shed light on areas I need to improve on as a listener and as a pastoral worker.
For one, I've always believed that listening to those under my pastoral care only involved the messages and words told to me. I would listen intently to these concerns and instead of finding solutions, my advice is always to seek the Lord in the decisions he must make. I would offer instances in my life where I encountered similar circumstances as my form of advice as to not meddle or interfere with their decision-making. I totally leave it up to them but am with them each step that they take.
In this chapter, Watchman Nee tells me to look beyond the "declared" messages and seek to spirit in listening to the words which were unsaid and the issues that were undeclared. These points slightly align to my way of listening as it can widen my pastoral mind in delving with the concern.
That leads me to a new approach whenever I listen to people seeking my advice. My heart needs to be more sensitive to the leadings of the Holy Spirit. And I must learn to listen with a different mindset. That I be used by God to give a perspective in-line with His plans for the concerned brother. And for me to do that, I need to shift gears in the way that I listen.
I grade myself a respectable B- for my efforts in listening. But I have a long way to go before I get that A.
2. The 3 Do's and Don'ts are: to not be subjective, to not woolgather, and to learn to enter into the feelings of others.
Among the 3, "Learning to enter the feelings of others" would be the one that I need to improve on the most and will definitely help me as a listener.
This involves being extremely sensitive to the Holy Spirit to allow me to put myself in the shoes of the person I'm listening to. Sensing the different aspects of his concern outside of what he is saying would need a certain type of patience that I dont think I have yet. It also means that I have to discern and "diagnose" properly his concern. As someone who does not find it comfortable in meddling or coming in between situations that dont involve me, I believe that I need a lot of God's grace to be able to lose myself and be in the person's shoes.
Lord, I ask for the grace to humbly listen to others and to allow Your Spirit to work in me. I pray for Your guidance in being your instrument of love to all those who seek your Will. And may I work to do your work always.
3. Naturally, I believe that men are less open to share their concerns than women. And in my case, it's difficult for me to even admit mistakes, wrongdoing, or weaknesses. As natural providers for the family, and natural leaders, showing weakness is not easy. Therefore, processing these concerns makes things more difficult for men in general, based on my experiences.
The best way for me to get a brother to open up is to establish a good relationship/friendship first. It's more comfortable to open up to someone familiar. And then I do my best to not show my reactions or my initial impressions. This is where this chapter comes in. Reserving judgment or biases is good when listening because a discussion or conversation begins instead of the other brother trying to defend his decision making.
Finally, I feel that it is easier for a brother to share his concerns and to seek counsel from you if you have earned his respect. If you've established that you make good choices in life and that you have a sincere heart in listening, I believe that men come for advice seeking a similar trend.
I agree with you in all your points bro!
It is by withholding oneself and just allow ourselves to listen first will always be a work in progress... sabi nga ni Covey, seek to understand than be understood.
This is why am thankful for community... aside from being surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, I am surrounded by brother (& sisters) who desire to live the life we have been called. I believe this is the foundation of our Community... having men (& women) who, in being vulnerable to one another, are able to build strong relationship with one & other and, at times, becoming God's messenger of Grace to those who need [or have asked for] His Grace.